WAVES Winter ‘98 Issue 7
Wonders of Lewis
Mike Scott talks about the writer CS Lewis to Stuart Bailie

Question: what does Mike Scott have in common with Liam Gallagher and Bono? Answer: they’ve all been touched by the magical writing of CS Lewis. Clive Staples Lewis was born in Belfast on 29th November 1898. He’s best known for his children’s stories, especially “The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe”, which is the only book that Liam Gallagher has ever read. For many exploring minds, that book has served as an introduction to the fantastical world of Narnia, where the animals talk, time spins on an entirely different axis and there are mythical beasts such as unicorns, giants and fauns. And at the heart of it all is a mighty lion called Aslan. The Narnia chronicles consist of seven books, including “The Magician’s Nephew”, “The Silver Chair” and “The Last Battle”. It’s a mark of Lewis’ standing that the Royal Mail have recently issued a first class stamp featuring an enchanting scene from Narnia. Meanwhile, in east Belfast, near his birthplace, a special sculpture of a wardrobe will soon be unveiled. The writer’s centenary is being celebrated by tours of special sites in Belfast and Oxford (where Lewis taught), plus lectures, religious services, a few musicals and stage productions of ‘Shadowlands’, the play that has also been turned into a film staring Anthony Hopkins. Lewis was a prolific writer, penning a series of science fiction novels (‘Out of the Silent Planet’, ‘Perelandra’ and ‘That Hideous Strength’), as well as volumes of literary criticism. Another highly respected element of this work dealt with the spiritual life. Of those books, ‘The Great Divorce’ and ‘The Screwtape Letters’ are among the most popular. Many musicians have used CS Lewis as an inspiration. There have been bands called Aslan and Silver Chair. XTC recorded a song called ‘Always Winter, But Never Christmas’ (a reference to “The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe”). Mike Scott has paid tribute to Lewis on many occasions: in his music, in interviews and on the stage. With this in mind, we called him and suggested a special tribute feature. This is the result.

What was your introduction to the writing of CS Lewis?

"I think my mum must have given me one of his books, when I was seven or eight. Probably “The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe”. And then I must have read all the rest of the Narnia books after that. It was many years before I read anything else by him."

So you were a fan of the Narnia Books?

"Oh, sold. I think “The Last Battle” would be my favourite. They all go through the stable door into another world. I loved the ending. I find it’s a very exciting book. I read it about two years ago and it was gripping, as things go from bad to worse in the first half of the book."

Did you like the illustrations in the Narnia books?

"I loved them. I suppose when I read the books as a child, I just accepted the Pauline Baynes illustrations, and they’ve always come to represent the spirit of the book since then. They’re quite romantic. There’s a fluidness to them ; mythological or something. I do like them. I love the original ones from “The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe” where the snow is hanging off the branches, the lamposts and the wood. Very evocative."

When did you discover the more serious CS Lewis books?

"I read “Out of the Silent Planet” when I was 14 or 15. And then sometime after that, I read “Perelandra” and then some time after that, “That Hideous Strength” a few years apart. I loved those as well."

And what about “The Great Divorce”?

"I was always put off that book because of its title. I thought it was gonna be a bunch of Christian essays, like so many of his books that were out. I didn’t like the title, didn’t like the cover. And then in a book about CS Lewis, I learnt that it was a work of fiction so I went back to it, and it was fantastic. That’s one of his best books. Absolutely brilliant."

He’s good at putting profound arguments into everyday language, isn’t he?

"Absolutely. He’s the master. In “The Great Divorce”, the basic idea of a bus trip that’s going from Hell on a day trip to heaven is brilliant. And then his description of Hell is excellent - this shabby street and everybody lives far apart from each other. And then all the conversations that happen. With the people who’ve been in Hell, he shows what their compromises are, or what their evil is. I think he names it all very well. He’s really good at naming evil ; at uncovering it and laying it bare. He does that really powerfully in “That Hideous Strength” as well."

And in “The Great Divorce”, there’s an appearance by the writer George MacDonald, (who of course wrote the lyrics that were used as the title track to The Waterboys Room to Roam).

"That’s a nice touch. I’d read George MacDonald long before. “Phantastes” was my first one. I read in 1983. I remember reading it in the Portobello Hotel in London."

So, in your own songs there are a few references to CS Lewis. There’s the opening line, “bye bye, Shadowlands” on “Church Not Made With Hands”. And what about your song “Further Up, Further In”?

"That was a phrase from ‘The Last Battle’ that I really liked. I had all these verses that were like a mythical journey, and I just kept coming back to the chorus, “further up, further in”. It’s just a straight steal. The title is straight out of Lewis."

The mood of that song is also similar to the Narnia book, “The Silver Chair”, in that you have a special quest to pursue.

"The whole album (Room to Roam) has that. It starts with “where will I wander and wander?”".

On Dream Harder, there’s a song called “Wonders of Lewis”. But that’s about the Isle of Lewis, isn’t it?

"It is indeed."

And you’ve used the image of a lampost on your album artwork...

"It’s on “The Best of The Waterboys”. A Narnian lampost. There’s only one lampost in Narnia. It’s the one that they see when they first go through the wardrobe. The lampost only has one bar on it, ‘cause the witch (in “The Magician’s Nephew”) grabbed it. And oddly, I visited Bono in 1986 when he was living in a Martello Tower on the coast near Dublin. And he had a lampost in his garden that only had one bar! A Narnian lampost in his garden. I don’t think he’s noticed it. But I was most impressed."

The language you used on “The Whole Of The Moon”, had references to scimitars and stars and unicorns. Was that a subliminal Lewis effect?

"I think it was an influence, definitely. The fabulous language and elements from mythology."

Have you read any books written by CS Lewis’ friends. The people who came to be known as The Inklings?

"Well, I liked JRR Tolkein. I didn’t discover him until very late, about two or three years ago. I love “The Lord Of The Rings”. I’ve read Charles Williams. I find his novels a bit dry. They’re seriously esoteric. Almost occult. He’s not as good a writer as Lewis or Tolkein - they’re masters. And the other guy is Owen Barfield. I’ve read a few of his. He was a lawyer, and one of his books was very funny. But they must have had great conversations. I’d love to have a tape of them."

Were you aware of the use of allegory in the Narnia books?

"Yes. I found that very powerful."

Aslan the lion is like a Christ figure, isn’t he?

"Totally. And then he appears as a lamb at the end of “The Voyage of the Dawn Treader”. And he’s crucified in “The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe”. They tie him up and kill him. I read it all with that backdrop, yeah."

You had that special fan club album called ‘The Lion of Love’. Was that a reference?

"You know, it must be in there. It wasn’t conscious. I think there’s a bit of Van Morrison’s “Listen to the Lion”. Maybe he’s been reading CS Lewis as well."

There’s the U2 video for “Hold Me Kill Me Kiss Me Thrill Me”, in which Bono throws down a copy of CS Lewis “The Screwtape Letters”. Did you notice that?

"I’ve seen that, yes. Well, he’s a big fan. We’ve talked about him, I remember. Bono having been a Christian, I think he was interested in that whole side of it."

And the only book Liam Gallagher’s read is “The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe”.

"Brilliant!"

There seems to be a fierce debate amongst scholars, who want to make Lewis fit their own personal beliefs. Then there was “CS Lewis: A Biography” by AN Wilson, who made him out to be a less-than-holy individual. What’s your thoughts on that?

"I didn’t think the AN Wilson book was very good. He’s an awful snotty brat, that guy, I’d read that book, and then I saw him on TV and I just thought, what an awful guy. I couldn’t take anything he’s written seriously after seeing him in the flesh. I thought it was a very poor book. I thought George Sayer’s book (‘Jack: A life of CS Lewis’) was very enlightening. And there’s ‘CS Lewis At The Breakfast Table’ (edited by James T Como), which is all essays, mostly by Americans."

Does it matter that CS Lewis told bawdy jokes and liked cigarettes and beer?

"It doesn’t bother me. It probably wouldn’t bother Liam either."

Did you see the film “Shadowlands”?

"I did, yeah. Very very good. I thought Anthony Hopkins was great. I don’t think he was physically like Lewis. I saw it as a TV play with Joss Ackland, and I thought he was more like CS Lewis. But Hopkins is such a great actor that he became CS Lewis for me in the film. I found it very moving."

Lewis’ wife, Joy Lewis made a dramatic fight back from cancer, which went away for several years. He believed it was a miracle. Do you accept that something beyond science and medicine may have helped her?

"I could certainly believe it. It seems like a miracle that they got two more years."

Do you think that because CS Lewis had a miserable childhood, it made him a better children’s writer?

"He lived in a land of his imagination and he invented countries because he had so much time on his own. I think that must have strengthened his imagination. If you’re a kid and you’re always surrounded by other people, you don’t have so much mental space. So he must have had a lot of time to dream and to think and to build his internal world."

Have you seen any of the places connected with CS Lewis in Belfast?

"No, the only place I’ve been to is his Church in Oxford (Headington Quarry) where he’s buried. I went and paid my respects at his grave a few years ago. I went into the church and there’s a stained glass window with lots of Narnian characters; the ship "The Dawn Treader" and Reepicheep the mouse and Aslan, and so on."

So if you had to be a Narnian character for a while, who would you choose?

"Well, I’d certainly like to be Lucy, finding her way through the wardrobe for the first time. I wouldn’t mind being a faun for a year in an elysian wood. That would do me."

So if someone hasn’t read any CS Lewis books, how would you recommend that they start?

"Well, “The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe” is the best way. That’s how I got in. And I never looked back."